[TMP] "So What's Wrong With Imaginations Games?" Topic

Given that in the overall wargaming/tabletop gaming world, historical gaming appears to be dwarfed by those who favour fantasy and science ...   "SoWhat'sWrongWithImaginationsGames?"Topic 36Posts Allmembersingoodstandingarefreetoposthere.Opinionsexpressedherearesolelythoseoftheposters,andhavenotbeenclearedwithnoraretheyendorsedbyTheMiniaturesPage. Inordertorespectpossiblecopyrightissues,whenquotingfromabookorarticle,pleasequotenomorethanthreeparagraphs. Formoreinformation,seetheTMPFAQ. Backtothe18thCenturyImagiNationsMessageBoardBacktotheHistoricalWargaminginGeneralMessageBoard AreasofInterestGeneral18th Century FeaturedHobbyNewsArticleOMM:NewMinis,Rules,Wargames,Books&Magazines FeaturedLinkLSHMWaco Top-RatedRulesetWarfareintheAgeofReasonRating:        FeaturedShowcaseArticleCoverbindingatStaplesHowdoescoverbindingwork? FeaturedWorkbenchArticle3Dprinting:Upscaling EditorinChiefBill "goeslarge." FeaturedProfileArticleCouncilofFiveNations2010 EditorinChiefBill isbackfromCouncilofFiveNations. CurrentPollWasBonniePrinceCharlieaFreeMason? 3,343hitssince8Feb2019 ©1994-2021BillArmintrout Commentsorcorrections?  DerAlteFritz 08 Feb 20199:38 a.m. PST FromtimetotimewefindabloggerwindgingaboutImaginations–thosefictionalhistoricallittlecountriessuchasRuritaniaandtheDuchyofGrandFenwickoft-foundduringthe18thCentury,emulatingthelittlecountriesoftheHolyRomanEmpire. IhavepostedmytakeonthetopiconmyDerAlteFritzJournalblog:link 79thPA 08 Feb 201910:15 a.m. PST Why,nothing,ofcourse! willthepiper08 Feb 201910:24 a.m. PST Hear,hear!Excellentblogentry.Giventhatintheoverallwargaming/tabletopgamingworld,historicalgamingappearstobedwarfedbythosewhofavourfantasyandsciencefictiongaming,andevenwithinthehistoricalsetthereiswidespreadenthusiasmfortopicssuchaVeryBritishCivilWarsetinthe1930s,andofcoursethepointyoumakethatalmosteverywargamesetstochangehistory(couldyoudobetterthanNapoleon?).Addontopofthattheoftennecessarylevelofspeculationwhenattemptingtorecreatearmiesfromeraswheretherearelimitedhistoricalresources,andImagiNationsjustfallrightintoplace.Doyouwanttomixhussars(orwhatever)intoyourarmybutcan'tjustifyithistorically?You'vegotagreatcolourschemeforuniformsyouwanttotryout?Yourtwofavouritecountriesneveractuallywenttowarwitheachother,oratleastnotinthehistoricalerathatinterestsyouthemost?ImagiNationsarethewaytogo!LongliveRuritania!LaRepublicadelosBananas!BorduriaandSylvania!ThePrincelyStateofJhamjar!  Saber6 08 Feb 201910:24 a.m. PST nameandshamewhoeversaidtheywere miniMo08 Feb 201910:35 a.m. PST Theyhavedonegreatimaginarywrongsperhaps?Freedoniawillgotowarifinsulted! Jeffers08 Feb 201910:41 a.m. PST Toansweryourquestion:nothing!It'stheultimateOldSchoolandsomethingIwouldlovetodo. robertpiepenbrink 08 Feb 201910:46 a.m. PST AndletusnotforgetthetriunemonarchyofScythia-Pannonia-Transbalkania!Gentlemen,HisImperialMajestyIgnatzLouis!!AndanotherforTheHeir!Ifyouwantedtomakeacaseagainst,Iwouldsaythat--Theconceptisstressedwhenthearmiesaresubstantiallydifferentandthegameisnotsolo.--Itdeprivesyouofthenitpickingoverflagsanduniformswhichisoneofthejoysofhistoricalhorseandmusketwargaming,and--YouhavetofighthistoricalbattleswithhistoricalarmiestogetthatwarmglowofhavingoutperformedFrederickorNapoleon.Butnoneofthishaskeptmefromraisingimaginaryarmiesbefore,andI'msaltingawaycastingsforanothercoupleasIwrite. WinstonSmith08 Feb 201911:47 a.m. PST Inthe70s,IwasheavilyinvolvedwithaplaybymailDiplomacyvariantcalledSlobbovia.Ibriefly"edited"thezine,theSlobinpolitZhurnal.ItwasbasicallyImaginationsgraftedontoDiplomacy.BearinmindthatDiplomacywasaveryseriousgameindeed.SomuchsothatIwasroastedoverthecoalsforannouncingthatIwouldnotbesendingcopiesofSlobinpolitZhurnaltoHoosierArchivesbecauseasanimpoverishedgradstudent,Icouldn'taffordthepostage.TheeditorshipwasrippedfrommyhandsbecauseIwasnotbeingseriousaboutmydutytoTheHobby.Itoccurstomenowthat…. Dynaman878908 Feb 201911:48 a.m. PST Nothingwrong.Istillhavenointerestinthemforthemostparthowever. WinstonSmith08 Feb 201911:49 a.m. PST WhatisAncientstournamentgaming,butImaginations?WhenVikingsfightCarthaginians… PanMarek08 Feb 201911:52 a.m. PST Hey-Ifyouhavethetimeandtheresources,dowhatyouwant.Forme,however,Ibecameawargamerduetomyinterestinhistory.AndtimeandmoneyhavealwaysmademelimithowmanywarsIseektogameinanygivenera.Thatsaid,Iwouldcertainlyplayinan18thcenturyimaginationsgame! KSmyth08 Feb 201912:02 p.m. PST Idon'tseethepurpose.Therearetonsofhistoricalprojectsformetotakeon.ButwhatIthinkisn'timportant.Ifyouenjoythemorfindfunormeaninginthem,haveablastwithyourproject. 22ndFoot08 Feb 201912:03 p.m. PST Idon'tthinkthatIhavetheimagination.Anenormouspartofthefunofhistoricalgamingformeistheresearch–trawlingthroughbooksandtryingtoworkoutwhatwerethedefiningtacticalandpoliticalfactorsofaperiod.ForthisreasontheconcepthasneverreallyappealedtomebutIhavenoissuewiththosewhoaremoreimaginativeandcreativejustgettingonwithit.Morepowertoyourelbow! irishserb08 Feb 20193:38 p.m. PST Curiously,Ifindmyselfdoingasmuchresearchformyimagi-nationgaming,asIdoforhistoricalprojects.ThedifferenceisthatwhenIhitavoid,itdoesn'tshutdownordetractfromtheproject.Icanfillintheblanks,withoutfeelinglikeI'vecompromisedtheintegrityofthegameorproject. OldContemptibles08 Feb 20193:46 p.m. PST Agreewith22ndFoot.PlayinghistoricalwargamesisjustonetoolIusetostudyhistory.Ialsoderiveenormousfunfromdoingtheresearchandassemblingthecorrectfiguresetc.ItryashardasIcantorecreatetheactualbattle.Neverwillbeableto,butthefunisinthepursuit.Idon'tagreethateveryhypotheticalscenarioisfantasy.Itdependsonthehypothesisyouwanttotest.Isitplausible?Imagi-gamestakesittoadifferentlevel.It'snotforme,butIhaveabsolutelynoproblemwithsomeoneperusingthisgenre.Isayifthatiswhatyoulike,thengoforit! OldContemptibles08 Feb 20193:53 p.m. PST Agreewith22ndFoot.PlayinghistoricalwargamesisjustonetoolIusetostudyhistory.Ialsoderivedenormousfunfromdoingtheresearchandassemblingthecorrectfiguresetc.ItryashardasIcantorecreatetheactualbattle.Neverwillbeableto,butthefunisinthepursuit.Idon'tagreethateveryhypotheticalscenarioisfantasy.Itdependsonthehypothesisyouwanttotest.Isitplausible?Imagi-gamestakesittoadifferentlevel.It'snotforme,butIhaveabsolutelynoproblemwithsomeoneperusingthisgenre.Isayifthatiswhatyoulike,thengoforit!  YellowAdmiral 08 Feb 20195:19 p.m. PST +1KSmythIfindhistoryanendlesssourceoffascinatingbattles,almost-battles,andplausible"whatif"battles.Ijustcan'tgetexcitedaboutotherpeople'sfantasiesanymore,unlessthere'saninterestingtie-intohistory,orsometimesasharedfantasybasedonabodyoffiction.Iadmitsomeofthe"whatif"scenariosIinventvergereallyclosetooutrightfantasy(especiallywithpre-dreadnoughts),butformepartoftheinterestliesintyingthewholethingtorealhistorysomehow.Mywargamingstartsfromadesiretoputmyselfintotheshoesofanhistoricalcounterpart,butIcan'tdothatifmycounterpartneverevenexisted.Mostofmygamerfriendsarejustfinewithfantasy,andplayGWgamesandVSFandCthulhuandothergenreswithgusto.Idon'thaveanyreasontodenigratethosegames,they'rejustnotinterestingtome.(AlthoughIadmitaslightweaknessforVSFcreations.ColonelO'Truthisbyfarmyfavoritescratchbuilder.Ilovereadinghisblog.)-Ix carne6809 Feb 20192:56 a.m. PST MypositionwhenIseesomeonebeingshamedononewargamingforumoranotherforheresy:Theyareyourtoys,playwiththemhoweveryouwant.Ifsomeonedoesn'tlikeyourwayofplaying,theywon'tplaywithyou.It'stheirloss.C'estlavie. langobard09 Feb 20194:02 a.m. PST +122ndFoot.Ilovedoingtheresearchonhistoricalarmies,uniformsandcampaigns.Thatsaid,IamquitewellawarethatthevastmajorityofAgeofReasongamesarepurefantasy!Buttheideaoftakinguptheawfulresponsibilityofnamingandrunningstates,designinguniforms,andbuildingarmiesiswaybeyondmypayscale:) Whirlwind09 Feb 20194:12 a.m. PST IfIweretostartagainfromscratch,orhadmytimeagain,IthinkthatIwouldonlydoimagi-nationsforallperiods.IIRCConradKinchcameupwiththemotto"makethegamefitthefigures":IwouldrunwiththatandmakeuparmiesasIneededthemtorefightthescenariosandperiodsIliked. Striker09 Feb 20195:03 a.m. PST Iloveimaginationgames,especiallymodern.Ialsolovetoreadandresearchhistoricaltopics,butifIwanttojustplayhistoricalbattlesI'lleithergetaboardgameorjustreadabook.There'snothingthatpreventsanimaginationforcefrombeingmodeledontheactualforce(fromcolorstotactics),justchangethebackgroundandlocale.  ColCampbell 09 Feb 20197:44 a.m. PST WhileIenjoydoinghistoricalresearch,Ialsoenjoylettingmyimaginationsoarwithmy18thCenturyImagi-Nationsgaming.SoIcanhavemycakeandeatittoo!LonglivetheMargraviateofCarpania!Jim 21eRegt09 Feb 20198:52 a.m. PST AnyonewhoknowsmepersonallyknowsmyloveofImagi-Nationgaming.Ourgrouphasahugecollectionof15mmSYWhistoricalfiguresfor"serious"gamesbutthankstoImagi-Nationsandoldschoolgamingwehaveatonof28mmfigurespaintedup,campaignsrunning,rivalriesdeveloped,etc.Theindustryisenhancedbyourpurchasesandwe'rekeptyoungbyourexcitement.  DerAlteFritz 09 Feb 20199:10 a.m. PST Iwouldaddthatprobably90%ofmySYWfiguresarepaintedashistoricalarmiesofAustrians,Prussians,French,BritishandRussiansandthesearethefiguresthatweuseinmanyofourgames.WesimplygivethemstandinnamessuchasGallic,Germanic,Britannia,RussieandEmpirium.SometimesweplaygameswiththefiguresbeingthehistoricalarmiesandsometimestheyarestandinsforImaginationsarmies,whicheverseemstostrikeourfancyforaparticulargameorday.IhaveasmallerforceofHesseSeewaldtroopsthatIsometimesbreakoutofstorageandplayagamewithacompletelyfictionalarmy.Somthereareseveralwaysofdoingthisevenwithexistinghistoricalarmies.Muchofthefuncomesfromthecampaignsandthepersonalitiesoftherecurringcharactersthatpopupnowandthen. WinstonSmith09 Feb 20199:44 a.m. PST MyHessianshavehappily(orgrumpily;withGermansit'shardtotell)substitutedforBrunswickers,andViceversa.IsitreallythatfarajumptoanImagination?Andmyjaegersknownonationality. GardedeParis09 Feb 201910:30 a.m. PST Ihaveneverhadenoughtimetopaint,andstillworkfull-timeat82,butIoftenthoughtofaddinganoccasional"Imagination"Regimenttomyarmies.theLegionduMidi(formerPiedmonttroops)servedwiththe26emede(French)LigneandtheHanoverialLefioninfantry,towhonotaddthe"BattaliondesPyranees"madeupofBasquetroops,brownuniformsfacedwhatever!Allowsontocreateone'sowendrummersaswell.GdeP custosarmorum 09 Feb 201910:57 a.m. PST Thanksforthatblogpost!MyfirsttruewargamingwaswithPeterYoung's(and,tobefair,J.P.Lawford's)Charge!orHowtoPlayWargamesusingmostlyAirfixWashington'sArmy,BritishGenadiers,withFrenchCuirassiersandFrenchartillery(withtricorn,andforoneunitbearskin,headswaps).IpaintedtheminlightblueasfauxBavarians.Iverymuchenjoyedthoseimagi-nationsgamesformorethanayearwhenwemovedintoNapoleonicgamingwithCLSruleswhichsawmetransitionfromAirfixfigurestometalones.Ihavefondmemoriesofmyearlydaysofwargaming,nownearlyahalfacenturyago!  COLScottret 10 Feb 20192:18 p.m. PST Ihaveandgladlywillplaybothhistoryandimaginedwars.IfofferedagameIwillgladlycrossplasticorleadswordswithany.C.S.Grantwasmystartintominiaturewargames,soIwillgladlyusethesamerulesforhistoricalorimaginarybattles.Aslongasmyoppositionisa"gentlemen"wewilllikelyhaveapleasantexperience,thekeyistohavefunwithourhobby. Aethelflaedawasframed10 Feb 20192:43 p.m. PST Imaginationsisoneofthebestwaystogetpasthindsightandit'seffectsonahistoricalscenario.NoteveryoneisaBrowneorFrederickandyouneednotcreateweirdrulestoensureonesidewinsorhasanadvantageforbalance,because"thatwasthewayitoughttobe".LearnyourtacticsinpastgamesandapplyittoanovelsituationandyouareactuallysimulatingthemindsetofanactualcommanderbetterthanreplayingKolinforthe80thtime.Addsomefogofwar,bothintheOoBandsomehiddendeployment,andcoupd'ouillebecomesarealthingthatgarnersvictory. tkdguy10 Feb 20198:06 p.m. PST ThereisabsolutelynothingwrongwithImaginationsgameing.It'salotoffun,andmakingupyourownnationanditsforcesispartofthatfun. Maxshadow14 Feb 20196:58 p.m. PST IturnedtoImagi-NationsforthepracticalreasonofwantingtouseallthescenariosI'vebeencollectingthesedecadespastwithmyWSSarmiesIwasbuilding.Neededtohavelightregimentsyousee.Thenyourealisehowmuchfunitcanbe. RussLockwood14 Feb 20198:45 p.m. PST Agree.Imagi-nationsletyouusetroopswithoutthe,um,um,…'judgmentsofhistory',um,'constraintsofhistory',ah,'preconceptionsofhistory'--bah,Aethsaiditbest:getpasthindsightandit'seffectsonahistoricalscenarioOrinacampaignsetup,seewhatanalternativestrategymightdoifsomebodymadeyouking.:) OldContemptibles15 Feb 201910:03 p.m. PST Icandonon-historicalscenarioswithmyhistoricalarmies. arthur181516 Feb 20191:41 a.m. PST Andviceversa! oldjarhead16 Feb 20198:00 a.m. PST Idon'tknowifitistrulyImagiNations,ijustchangedhistorytosetupthecampaignwhereIwantedit. pbishop1219 May 20201:22 a.m. PST I'mwithwhirlwind.I'vebeengamingNapoleonicsfor45years,butifIcouldstartover,it'dbetricornehorseandmusketimaginations.Bigbattalions.Lotsofcolour. Sorry-onlyverifiedmemberscanpostontheforums.